【J】What’s the inspiration behind the INO collection?

　　【J】您的INO系列背后的灵感是?

　　【TN】For me the inspiration comes really from the ceramic. You will see in the presentation that for me it’s very important to do a full immersion in the field. I knew already with ceramic factory Laufen used to work with bathroom ceramic. But with SaphirKeramik we have to go beyond to find another step. Everything I was thinking was how we can do something which make sense to do with SaphirKeramik, which will also be difficult to copy with any other material but which make sense. So the inspiration for me was to mix all these things. The washbasin started with the icon of a washbasin, which is still a washbasin it’s not something strange. I wanted to do something really normal, but what we say extraordinary we mean normal but exceptional in the way if you pay attention. So for me the inspiration was from the culture of washbasin to the possibility of SaphirKeramik, try to mix, to give birth to something which was still in our collective memory of the washbasin, but which is something really different, really innovative.

　　【TN】对我来说灵感完全来自于陶瓷本身。待会你将会在我的演示中看到，对于整个制造过程的实地考察和沉浸，这对我来说是非常重要的。在过去的合作中我已经熟知劳芬的陶瓷生产工厂，但是对于蓝钻陶瓷来说，我们必须要进一步优化升华。我所考虑的所有要点都是如何能用蓝钻陶瓷来做出最适合它的自然的设计，这种设计可能很难用其他材料来复制。于是我的洗脸盆设计始于一个普通的洗脸盆的“感觉”或“印象”，我希望做出最符合这种洗脸盆印象的设计，做出一种“超越平凡”的设计，一种乍眼看上去很平凡，但是如果你留意到它了，会觉得这是一种非常优美而高超的设计。所以我的灵感源自于洗脸盆自身的文化，再加上蓝钻陶瓷，我将这两者巧妙的混合，来得出一个既符合大众印象中的洗脸盆形象，但又有些许不同、创新的设计。

　　【J】How did you draw from collective unconsciousness to derive such a product? I’m curious because it seems very hard.

　　【J】您是如何从这种大众潜意识中设计出产品形象的?我很好奇，这看上去是件很困难的事情。

　　【TN】No it’s not hard because it’s completely subjective. So I’m not collecting information for a benchmark. In this case the approach of the product is trying to… The work of a designer I think is a big digestion of all the picture all the image you can do, no? Creating new from nothing, is something I think is an illusion, we always draw from a culture product or culture process or developing together with the company which has its specificity. For me the ideal condition is also with Laufen because I like working with the company which its strong knowledge about something, a deep specific knowledge. I’m lucky because I can do this with different company and with different process so someone working with wood, and someone working in sofa, someone working in different field. With Laufen for me it’s really focusing on the discussion, the project as a result of a collaboration, I believe in the collaboration to do the project. I’m not believe in trying by myself like “this is the product to design, let’s go this way”. For me the first time I’m like a sponge I try to absorb everything I can get from the company from the factory from all these people who are much better than me with ceramic.

　　【TN】这不是件很难的事情，因为这是完全主观的。我不是在收集信息调研得出大众的一个统一标准。对于设计师来说他的工作就是要消化这些感觉和形象，不是么?从“无”中创造出“有”，我觉得这就是一个悖论。我们一直在从过去的文化产品中寻找灵感或和拥有自身核心技术的公司一起研发。对我来说和劳芬的合作是一个很理想的状态，因为我喜欢和对某个领域有很深刻认识的公司一起工作。我也很幸运，因为我可以和不同的公司一起尝试不同的流程，也许是木材商，也许是沙发商，也许是完全不同产品领域。和劳芬的项目成果确实是合作的硕果，我坚信只有合作才能做好项目。我不相信那套只靠自己“这是要设计的产品，我们就这么做吧”的方式。从一开始我就像个海绵一样，吸收所有我能从公司、从工厂、从所有比我更懂陶瓷太多的人身上学到的东西。

（INO系列面盆和连体柜）

　　【J】You mentioned that you also design other products, what do you think are the differences between bathroom products and other kinds of products, say furniture?

　　【J】您之前说您还设计其他产品，您觉得卫浴产品和其他产品有什么不同么?比如家具?

　　【TN】For me first of all each company partner is different. It’s different story, it’s different people. I’m not trying to always do something with another parter, for me it could also be in the same field. Even if I work with different people different company like in furniture, it’s another story another culture another country, another…everything is new. Obviously the only common thing in this case is my participation. So when I focus on innovation I just focus on this relation for the project. I’m not thinking about if it’s different if it’s better. So I think it’s really like a story and fortunately I can live different stories.

　　【TN】对于我来说所有的合作公司都是不同的，都是不同的故事，不同的人。我也不是只和不同公司合作，也可以在相同领域里合作。即使我和不同公司合作，比如家具公司，也是另一个故事，另一个文化，另一个国家，另一个……所有事情都是全新的。当然在这种情况下，维持不变的就是我的参与。当我专心创新时我全身心投入在项目里，我并没有去想这有哪些不同或者是不是更好。所以我觉得这整个过程就像是个故事，而我很幸运能活在很多不同故事当中。

　　【MV】We have Mr. Magrans joining us, Laufen Chief of CEO.

　　【MV】劳芬的CEO Magrans先生也会加入到我们的访谈中。

　　【J】I’ve read in other interview that functionality is the most important thing for your design, do you consider that to be your design philosophy?

　　【J】在过去的访谈中您提到在您设计中，功能是最重要的，这是您的设计理念吗?

　　【TN】Functionality is very important, it’s one of the important issue. For me, functionality is a little bit restrictive because my motto is to make products which make sense so it could be without functionality if it makes sense. In the case of the project INO with SaphirKeramik the functionality is very important because we are talking about the bathroom, a place where people use everyday, and it has to work, you cannot say that I don’t know where to put my things or it’s too sharp it’s hurting or the bathtub is not comfortable enough. So in this case the functionality I think is very important because there’s a clear relation between the user and the objects which are the ceramic part of the bathtub the washbasin and any piece of the furniture. So yes it’s an important point. My thinking is really to achieve some new products in corporation with the company. So what I was saying before it’s more of my approach, is really to work in team, to make the people believe in the project then bring the project forward. Because in my experience if you bring something that people really don't believe in the company, it never works. When the people say that they want to do it, it happened with SaphirKeramik because also the people from the development especially for SaphirKeramik, for them understood that it was a challenge and we were excited to do it, this is very excited also for me, that the people are willing to do it.

　　【TN】功能非常重要，这是其中一个重要的点。对于我来说只谈功能有些太限制了，因为我的理念是设计“合理的”产品，所以即使是一个没有“功能”的产品，只要它“合理”对我来说也是可行的。然而在使用蓝钻陶瓷的INO系列中，功能是非常重要的，因为这是卫浴产品，人们天天都使用它，所以它必须能很好的运作，不能说我不知道我的东西能放哪，或者造型太尖锐伤到人，或者浴缸使用起来很不舒服。所以在这个案子里，我认为强调功能是必须的，因为用户和产品之间有着非常明显的相互作用关系。除此之外我觉得必须要和公司一起合作来开发新产品，所以就像我之前所说的，需要团队合作，需要人们相信这个项目并一起让它变得更好。在我的过往经验中，如果人们不相信，这项目永远不会成功。而蓝钻陶瓷这个项目，从研发团队来说，他们理解我的设计挑战，而且也很为之兴奋，因此对我来说也变成了一个大家愿意投入的很令人兴奋的项目。

（蓝钻陶瓷INO系列生产过程）

　　【J】What do you think will be the bathroom design trend in the near future?

　　【J】您认为卫浴产品未来的设计趋势会是怎样的呢?

　　【TN】I don’t know if I have the answer but every time I have to design something, the main question is why should we do this, not only because we have to put some new products in the market but-there are so many chairs in the market, you don’t need a new chair. You don’t need a new sofa. Nobody needs really new products in many fields, not maybe even in ceramic. But sometimes there is a guideline which helps us to understand that it makes sense. So the SaphirKeramik it was first of all a material. And until you use this material to create products you have only a concept, it’s only a patent. So in this case it really make sense, for other products maybe it doesn't have sense, but every time I try to do something which make sense not only in terms of the market, for economic reason but also in terms of product. That’s why for me, functionality is always to have in mind the final user, and not only the people who are the buyer of the product.

　　【TN】我不知道答案。但是每次我要设计一个东西，我的核心问题是为什么我们要做这件事。原因不该是因为我们需要给市场带来新产品—市面上有太多椅子了，你根本不需要新椅子，你根本不需要新沙发，在很多领域我们都已经不需要新产品了，也许在陶瓷领域里也是这样。但是蓝钻陶瓷不同，这是一个革新材料，在人们用这个材料来创造出产品之前，你只有一个概念，一个材料专利。所以在这个情况下，设计新产品是合理的。每次我在设计时都希望不仅对市场有用，能够获得经济利益，而且这个产品能有其合理性。所以对我来说，产品的功能性就是心存终端用户，而不是只心存产品的买卖方。

　　【J】In this year’s KBC we see a lot of smart bathroom products, what do you think about this trend and how will Laufen react to it?

　　【J】在今年的厨卫展上我们看到了很多智能卫浴产品，您怎么看待这个趋势，劳芬会如何应对?

　　【MV】Smart bathroom is still a far way to go, but it’s an important part of life, an intimate space where you have also the possibilities to be close with your body and your health, there’s an aspect of hygiene, in the future maybe medical analysis, whatever can be carry out in the bathroom. There’s a long way ahead of us from being just a place to wash, to crossing the bridge of being a place of wellbeing. But it’s a long way because the bathroom is first of all a place that’s part of the architecture, products are heavily installed, almost connected to the building, not like product that could be changed easily with technology or electronics.

　　【MV】智能卫浴还有很长的路要走，卫浴对人们的生活来说很重要，这是一个很私密的空间，让你能和你的身体及健康对话的空间。未来也许会融入医疗方面的分析，或者其他适用于在卫浴空间里完成的功能。但要从一个洗浴空间变成一个健康空间还有很长的路。因为卫浴空间是依附于建筑的，产品都是需要安装的，几乎和建筑连为一体，不像其他产品可以很容易的更换技术或者是电路。

　　【J】The SaphirKeramik project has been a worldwide success. How does the market-especially the China market react to it? Last year we have Kartell by Laufen, a few years back we have the Living Square and this year we have the exciting collection of INO and VAL.

　　【J】蓝钻陶瓷项目在全世界范围内都很成功，那市场反响，尤其是中国市场反响如何?去年我们有Kartell by Laufen系列，再之前我们有Living Square系列，今年我们又增添了令人兴奋的新产品INO和VAL.

　　【AM】SaphirKeramik is a material completely developed from scratch by Laufen engineers together with various universities. It took us more than five years to come up with this material, and has very special properties, that comes with very thin walls, very sharp radius. Because the material is much superior than the original ceramic. The normal reaction of people when they touch our SaphirKeramik pieces they said “This is steel, no? It cannot be ceramic, it’s impossible.” But it’s 100% ceramic and the most hygienic, the most durable, the best material for the bathroom. So we launched this project in fact eight years ago, it took us five years to develop, it was a very complex project. Then, three years ago we launched the material commercially together with the product. And this is a good lesson because sometimes we talk a lot about innovation but innovation is something that is only real through innovation when it is possible to get translated into a product. And this product can be acquired by the market. That was the case three years ago, when we launched the SaphirKeramik material with Living Square and Kartell by Laufen production. Today we have the opportunity, the fantastic pleasure to have Toan with us, to present his latest baby, the INO collection made in this material. You will see that it changed completely the traditional aspect of ceramic, much more modern and fresh, in line with the modern trends of design. And the reaction has been enormous in all the markets. Everybody agrees that this is the future. Once again Laufen came up with a fantastic innovation and we were able to transform this innovation that was born in a lab, into a regular mass productions to be able to deliver to the customers. We were able to serve the society. Because this is also a most environment-friendly material. Why? Because we were able to meet the functionality consuming much less natural resources because you know the ceramic material is made of natural resources. This material consumes much less resources, because it’s much lighter, also in the industrial process we consume less gas and less CO2 emission. So it’s not only the most modern looking but also has a big effect in ecology [24:34] It’s really a big success.

　　【AM】蓝钻陶瓷是一个劳芬工程师和各个高校一起合作，完全从无到有创造出来的一个新型材料。我们花了5年的时间做研发，使它拥有了非常特殊的特性，它能实现非常轻薄的外壁，以及非常锐利的倒角。这一切都是因为我们这个材料比传统陶瓷要优越太多太多。人们在碰触我们的蓝钻陶瓷产品时经常性的反应一般是“这是钢铁做的吧?这不可能是陶瓷，绝对不可能。” 但是这百分之百是陶瓷而且是最卫生、最耐用、最好的卫浴材料。所以我们在8年前开始了这个项目，用了5年研发，这实在是一个非常复杂的项目。然后，在三年前我们发布了这个材料的商用版本以及使用该材料制造的产品。这对我们来说是一个非常不得了的事情。因为很多时候我们在谈创新，但只有转化为可被市场接受的产品，创新才能真正被实现。于是我们在三年前发布了蓝钻陶瓷的Living Square系列以及Kartell by Laufen系列。今天我们也有幸邀请了Toan来为我们发布他的最新作品，蓝钻陶瓷的INO系列。你将会看到这完全革新了人们对陶瓷的印象，该产品更加现代化更加新潮，更符合目前的设计趋势。而且市场对它的接受度非常高，大家都认为这就是卫浴产品的未来。于是劳芬又一次创造了一个了不起的创新，而我们将这个实验室里出生的创新，成功的转化为了可以进行大规模生产并且能让终端用户使用的产品。我们更好的服务了社会，因为这个材料也是一个非常环保的材料。为什么?因为我们在满足产品功能性的前提下，能够使用更少的自然资源-你也知道陶瓷必须使用自然资源来制造-而我们的材料使用更少的资源，因为它更轻更薄，而且在生产过程中使用了更少的煤炭，有更小的碳排放量。所以这不仅是一个拥有现代感外观的产品而且还是一个更有益于大自然的产品。这的确是一个很大的成功。

（左图蓝钻陶瓷和右图普通陶瓷对比）

（左图劳芬Living Square系列和右图VAL系列新品）

　　【J】So what’s the next steps for the SaphirKeramik project? Who else would you invite to join this…

　　【J】蓝钻陶瓷项目的下一步是?下一位会是谁来加入……

　　【MV】To join this couch (laugh). I think Laufen is an extremely attractive brand and we are in a very fortunate situation where the best designers in the world like to work with us. We are also very selective. As I explained in the beginning, everything is very long term. We are interested in collaborating with the best designers and building a long-term relationship. I cannot give you names who will be the next but for sure that the best ones we have will continue to work with us.

　　【MV】加入到我们在坐的这个沙发上(笑)。我认为劳芬是一个非常具有吸引力的品牌，而且我们也是非常幸运，世界上最好的设计师们都愿意和我们合作。我们挑选合作设计师也非常严格。像我之前所说的，我们做事都看重长期发展。我们很愿意和最好的设计师一起工作并建立长期合作关系。我目前无法告诉你下一个合作设计师会是谁，但我们现有的已合作的设计大师们都会持续和我们合作。

　　【J】This is a question for Mr. Nguyen, what kind of designer do you think can be called a good designer?

　　【J】这个问题是问Nguyen先生的，您认为怎样的设计师才能被称为好设计师呢?

　　【TN】The first thing is to be able to absorb information and collect what is around. The information comes everywhere, I am sitting in this sofa, and I’ll start looking at what this the sofa is made of. You shouldn’t expect the information will be already processed and handed to you in a package. So you should understand in many different issue, from the production to the market. I’m not sure if I’m doing well in every field but my first approach is really absorbing. And it is also really exciting because I can come here to talk, but I’m more here to listen and to absorb and to understand, how is this market and what is important for the people here. When I’m traveling I’m trying to understand what is important and because it’s very different from other part of the world. So yes the first thing is to listen to the people. For production another aspect is to try to understand what is the process, what is clever, what is interesting to do. It’s like learning a language. The more you learn the language the more you are able to use it. So I look at completely different field, and different material. I’m lucky to work world-wide with different materials and process, because I can try to bring something—this is also interesting because if you are a specialist in one field, like ceramic, you know a lot of things, but sometimes you will miss the outside view and the ideal position of the designer is being independent in a way and working with different things so I can bring something interesting. I collect information, I get a lot of knowledge about ceramic from Laufen, and I try in exchange bring also something from other fields, for example furniture, I proposed which material to use but for SaphirKeramik there was no such experience. So yes it’s always for me a huge exchange.

　　【TN】设计师该做的第一件事是吸收资讯并且收集周围所有的信息。这些信息可能来自任何地方。我正坐在这个沙发上，我就会开始看这个沙发是用什么材料做的。你不应该等待信息被消化后自己呈现给你。所以你应该尽力了解所有方面，从生产工艺到市场宣传。我不知道在每一个领域里我能否做到了最好，但我会尽力吸收和学习。我来到这里演讲，但我更是来倾听、来吸收、来理解这个市场以及这里的人们的。当我在旅行时我很努力在了解什么是重要的，因为所有地方都和其他地方的情况不一样。所以我认为第一件事要做的就是要倾听。从生产角度来说，我们还需要学习生产工艺流程，什么是可以做的，怎样做能更有趣。这就像学习一门语言一样，你学习得越多，你就越能够运用它。所以我会去接触完全不同的领域以及完全不同的材料。我很庆幸我能接触到全世界不同的流程和材料，这样我能带来一些不同的东西。当你在一个领域里是专家时，比如陶瓷领域，你知道很多知识，但也许你就缺乏了旁观者的角度。而设计师是独立的，能接触到很多不同东西的，所以我就能带来一些新的有趣的东西。我收集信息，我向劳芬学习关于陶瓷的知识，然后我尝试从其他领域带来我的专业性。比如对于卫浴家具，我提议了我们可以使用的材料，而蓝钻陶瓷我是不了解的，这样于是我们就交换了彼此的专业性。

　　【J】Is that how you come up with the name INO for the collection? I’ve always wonder what’s the meaning behind the name?

　　【J】您也是这样为INO这个系列起名的么?我一直在想这个名字背后有什么含义。

　　【TN】INO was a long discussion (Laugh). A short name but a very long discussion. It’s only one “N” but INO is innovation, in Italian when you say something is small, or you call someone like a small one, you say “ino” at the end of the word, and the washbasin is Lavandino. So there’s something for me that is friendly and innovative. So that’s exactly the goal for my side, it’s an innovative product but very friendly, and really useful.

　　【TN】INO这个名字是个很长的讨论(笑)。这是一个很短的名字但我们用了很长时间来讨论。INO只有一个N，但是它其实代表了创新。在意大利语里，当你说一样东西很小，或者称呼一个人很小时，你需要在词尾加上“ino”。在意大利语里洗脸盆被称为“Lavandino”，所以这个名字对我来说是非常亲切而又代表着创新的。这个名字完全符合了我的期望，代表着一个友好的、有用的创新产品。

　　【J】Thank you for your time.

　　【J】谢谢您接受我们的采访。